Using the Diminished Scale for a project I was assigned to do…

[Anonymous]

@Jeff – well done, i presume the F# is the F# in JF’s altissimo course (ie the alternative fingering for F#? as opposed to the normal F# fingering on the sax?)

I’ll give you a real good tip for playing difficult altissimo notes (a tip that works for me).
This tip is related to stubborn altissimo notes, that are hit and miss, or last a second and disappear, and you can’t seem to play them for a count of 4.
Before you can use this tip, you need to be able to at least hit the altissimo note, even if its for a fraction of a second.
for example – I found when i first could hit an altissimo G, i couldn’t hold it for any length of time, it just died or squaked off.
The problem lies in the breathing support – not the note.
What i found is if i relaxed my stomach – let it go into the normal POT BELLY shape (which isn’t very flattering),
and then filled my POT BELLY with more air until it was pushing out as much as possible (even less flattering sight),
then if played the altissimo G i could play it for a count of 4.

What i discovered the more air you have down there gives you more support in playing the note, the less air down there – then the note fizzles out.
That big balloon of air down there also provides a strong steadier stream of air (not a faster stream of air).
If speed up the stream of air coming out of you mouth, you will end up raising the pitch of whatever key you are playing,
avoid speeding up your air stream and most of the keys on the sax will stay in tune,
instead of speeding up the air stream – fill your stomach with more air.

I do 15 chromatic run ups on the sax when i warm up, going from Low Bb to Altissimo D#, or as high as you can go.
But what i do is try to play in one breath or two breaths or 3 breathes – this is building up the stomach muscles
to get use to holding a long breath or good support – which is what higher altissimo notes need.
In my 15 run ups – i do slurring, double tongue, triple tongue, growl, flutter, staccato, single tongue, any thing i can think of that gets me to attach all the notes differently

[wayne wojnarowski]

Hello ! Guys So Much Good Stuff !! Mike I was a member of this club and the mantra was KISS SX poet you can figure that one out! why do you have to play all that stuff you said?? Play something simple if it sounds good soulful whatever , do you really care if you are playing dim whatever ‘s if you can make a C note sound good , that’s what counts.You have to make something simple sound beautiful . You are missing the boat if you think theory is power… it is BUT the beauty of sax is TONE!! Thats why I say less is more.Jeff I wished you lived by me, I have worked on a bunch of tunes but I hate wasting my time trying to make a video. Sx poet I’ve been working on those over tone ex. frustrating I’ve got to the 3’rd oct
a good one to try is finger a F but blow the high F without the oct key, than drop to the low F. go down to low Bb . Teachers teach that’s how they make their money. Doesn’t mean you have to learn anything you don’t really need to know Everybody .I guess simply make something simple sound beautiful. somebody mentioned flutter tone etc. as a practice. Jeff i recommend Long Tones i start at low Bb hold it a long 4 counts 1234 B 1234 up to high F#. It will give you a better tone , I think it develops your cheek muscles, not relying on just lip .Sx poet I think the gut is good for tone !! PRESS ..

[Anonymous]

Hi Sxpoet and Wayne, yes I’ve been practising long tones & chromatic runs by Johnny’s recommendation, my main problem is air support as you say. The exercise of playing high notes from low fingering is beginning to bear fruit and concentrating on relaxing the mouth and focusing more on the vocal chord aspect has also helped thanks to Dave’s book. All these tips have helped improve my tone and I think you’ll hear the difference with my next recording. I really want to master these altissimo notes because to me that is proof of good Sax control. It’s the ability to play notes in casual tunes ‘noodling’ with expression, which I find really attractive. Listening to Dave Koz I can copy his tune, but can’t sound like him because of the expressive tone he puts into his notes. This to me is the Art of Sax = the Nirvana of Noodling!

[Anonymous]

@Jeff – just give it a try – fill up the stomach with excess air, hold it, then release slowly playing altissimo high note.
It also works for overtones higher up if you can only play them for a short time.

Larger Volume of Air + Slow Steady Relaxed Release + Keep That Tongue Still

Any movement of the tongue into different shapes, raising/lowering the back of the tongue, raising/lowering the tip of the tongue, slanting up/down of the tongue – will all result in altering the larynx – which is creating the sound you’re trying to produce.

On a different topic.
Months ago i thought my tone sounded good, even in relation to the tone of the sax played by a professional sax player on a backing track, and when i a played alongside my sax teacher.

WRONG – the tone that i hear when i am playing is different to the tone heard by a listener!!!!

The listener is a better hearer and judge of your tone and they can advise you on sharpening/flattening your tone.
And by the listener – i don’t mean you listening back to your own recording – your brain functions with sight and sound in the same way ie it will fill in gaps of a picture without your eyes looking at the complete picture in the same way it will sometimes only pickup enough of the sound instead of the whole range of sound.

When you get to that stage, you’ll find your teacher – telling you to go away and start singing scales and various pitches in tune to a piano.

So you go away sing a middle c, compare it to a piano sound, focus on controling it sharper & flatter and then spot on in pitch and tone (sweet spot). Thats fine tuning your brain to hear the pitch and tone more to what the listener is hearing – then play the middle c in the same way.

Bottom line you can only do this with someone else in the room with you – the wife or friend.

[Dazza]

William, I understand the MB order is around a week away from landing at JF’s place and then he will turn em around to us all. So I reckon within two to three weeks posts will start to come in about their new baby. Some will be happy and some will be frustrated with their first blow. I hope I am one of the happy campers!

[Michael Bishop]

@ Wayne: There’s nothing complicated about any of this stuff. It’s all very easy, straight forward stuff that virtually all musicians learn about and that my Instructor teaches to all of his students. Saxophone players use Diminished Scales all the time and I was given an assignment, by him, to help me start applying what I’ve learned; just like we would do with any other Blues Scale, Major Scale, etc..

[Michael Bishop]

Is there any ‘power’ in learning about practical, everyday music theory? Is learning about Music theory useless? Here’s a few videos on pro-level musician’s take on this very subject. A lot of it depends on what we wanna do with the Sax…however, there’s a BIG difference between playing the notes from sheet music v.s. being able to express ourselves through Improvising; and that’s where having knowledge of music theory comes into play. You can be absolutely sure that all of the greatest Sax players in the world had rock-solid understanding about practical music theory–combined with Rock-solid technique it can make a MAJOR difference. There’s no way they could effectively play with the world-class Piano players, guitar players, etc.. without having a strong fundamentals built around music theory. The last link is a short interview from Sax Legend Big Jay Mcneely. In this interview he talks about his how history of how he learned to play, things that are important, etc.. If you check out the first 30 or so seconds of the interview, you will see clearly that, yes, even he studied music theory.

[Anonymous]

Michael – over here in the UK, you will find the majority of people who have been taught to play a musical instrument in their lifetime are also taught music theory at the same time, so most people over here have a good idea of the importance of music theory.

We have music grades from 1 – 8 and music theory grades as well, and to do higher music grades, you need to pass certain music theory grades before hand.

The only difficult thing i find with music theory, is a lot of the time when i put the theory into practice when playing sheet music – i get it wrong initially and the teacher has to demostrate on his sax how it should sound when played. Even if you play in time to a metronome, you can still play a piece wrong if you don’t understand the theory behind the music written on a music sheet. Which is one of the reasons why a lot of people master the theory first before mastering improvisation.

If you learn to play Jazz music grades, then you learn the theory and to improvise at the same time from day one. So theres lots of different approaches, nothings really set in stone.

[Anonymous]

Sxpoet – I had a grade 5 in piano playing and grade 3 in theory when I lived in the UK in 1974, but I find some explanations of music theory to be quite confusing.

[Anonymous]

thats cool Jeff – at grade 5 level you can play some serious stuff.
They say grade 5 is the equivalent of an o’level and grade 8 the equivalent of an a’level?

Mostly everyone can get a grade 1, i’ve only got grade 2 on the alto.
But i’m between grade 3 & grade 4 now, i want to take my grade 3 – missed the exam last december, will aim to do it this year, if not i might skip it and just do grade 4 instead.

The problem i find with theory is remembering the nitty gritty bits of it. Also a lot of theory builds on previous bits of theory and different sections of theory overlap. Remembering all those itallian names for different levels of sound is a headache.

Another thing i find with playing sheet music, when i play the sheet i sometimes change the timing of certain notes or the phrasing of some notes as that way it sounds more natural/pleasing to me. fits in more with my dialect – and if i play it to someone i can get away with it as it still sounds nice to the listener. The only problem is the listener is less forgiving if i introduce more changes and end up being ahead or behind on change of bars in relation to the backing track.

I guess a lot of demos done on youtube are like that – which isn’t helpful when it doesnt match the notes on your sheet – which is the great thing with JF’s site, you get to hear JF play it and know when you play his sheets the two should in tandem

[Author]

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